Is renting Forever Okay?

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

Just thinking about the future.Does renting apartments for life really work?I would never buy a house.A condo maybe,so who rents.Who owns and who rents and what are the benefits?

[AD]

In one word - NO.

[Dj Pat]

Hell No!
That 700.00, 800.00 or whatever amount your paying for Rent could go for something that you own!
Why Continue to make others Rich?!?!

*phm*

[Mack-Williams]

I rent right now because I'm not settled in one place. I'm always on the move. I want to buy when I know I'm going to be there for twenty years. Then what I saw my moms and pops got for $175,000 dollars. They had a mansion. I can wait to I am ready to move out the city.

[The Buddy Love Show]

Depends


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/business/2007_BUYRENT_GRAPHIC.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

there are other great calculators out there

[Chris Conrad]

with all the 'its better to own' threads and articles out there, i found there are just as many that discourage ownership...because people simply think of just the mortgage payment and not the associated costs of owning and maintaining a home...for example, shit breaks, you are fixing it...not the landlord...a big problem where i live has been the influx of former renters who have let property maintenance drop dramatically...and now the town is issuing fines...people stop cutting lawns, fixing stuff, simple maintenance...i've had several problems with my new neighbor, and in an attempt to work things out, i even tell him how to fix things, what to get, how much it costs, who to call etc...his one answer is that he can't afford it...so maybe he should have stayed in his apartment...i'm just saying...so now the fines and visits from the town will add up...when he could have made some simple repairs and bought a lawn mower...

what happens is people rent, realize, hey i pay almost as much as a mortgage...go get approved, everything is cool for a couple of months then oh shit, i actually have to maintain the house i 'own'...yard maintenace, gutter cleaning, fix the fence, painting, roofing, concrete and driveway work, a set of good tools, etc etc etc...all this stuff costs money whether you do it yourself or have someone else take care of it...

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

Its hard to get a down payment when you have to cough up $950 a month.I know a girl who just bought a house for $599 k.She did'nt put any money down and the mortgage is $4000 a month.She had a section 8 tenant but the section 8, didnt renew and was dropped.Long story short the lady only pays $300 bucks a month so now she has to pay the rest.She only makes$1000 a week so she is in a bind.

[Chris Conrad]

Depends


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/business/2007_BUYRENT_GRAPHIC.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

there are other great calculators out there

similar to what i saw elsewhere and there are other pro/con articles out there on various aspects of this...

[mhd]

without a doubt, its better to own than rent, you don't always need cash for a downpayment, the sooner you own the better, having said all that, i'm delighted there are so many renters

[Mack-Williams]

My landlord had a 7 year interest only loan. I pay $1500 and he pays a $1,000 every month. I'm thinking he is jus trying to flip the building somewhere down the line. The bulding is located in prime real-estate area in Chicago.

[ebot9000]

Plus... Occasionally people lose money on property. You have to be careful & lucky. I'm worried for many of the people that bought high (recently), including friends and family of mine. If you got a few hundred Gs on the line you can really lose some dough.

That being said, it seems better to throw your monthly money - basically - at yourself rather than a landlord. I hope to join the club some day.

[Fletch]

Rent if you are not knowledgeable on, and are not willing to deal with, all the responsibilities of homeownership (summing up Chris's thread). Also, if you are qualified to buy, buy what you can afford (I believe 2007 has taught us this the hard way!).

[Armento]

Its hard to get a down payment when you have to cough up $950 a month.I know a girl who just bought a house for $599 k.She did'nt put any money down and the mortgage is $4000 a month.She had a section 8 tenant but the section 8, didnt renew and was dropped.Long story short the lady only pays $300 bucks a month so now she has to pay the rest.She only makes$1000 a week so she is in a bind.
Well the basic rule I heard is that your mortgage + property tax (or condo fee) should be not more than 1/3 of your income. That's a good starting point.

[Sweetiwluv]

The never ending saga of home ownership! Sunshine, been looking for a while but if your credit isn't tight the downpayment is high! With the market as bad as is right now - loans are getting harder for folks like myself who have not horrible but not the best credit. (old debt is the worse)

yes stuff breaks down and when you rent dude I got a leak call is easy!
but when you own its up to you!

but at the end of the year if you make it to the end of the year that tax break is wonderful!

I don't have any kids so trust what I'm telling you I get taxed out the butt and can't wait to get a house!

Sweeti

[mhd]

now is a great time to buy, money is cheap and properties are very cheap and creative deals abound

[The Buddy Love Show]

this process is not one that can be made w/o considering other aspects

if one owns you have piece of mind and a tangible asset but the value of that asset appreciates slowly. at the end of a 30 year time period the money saved by renting over buying might be worth FAR more

a person needs to do a detailed long term financial analysis and ask themselves some tough questions

[Fletch]

Its hard to get a down payment when you have to cough up $950 a month.In the City of New York, rent for $950/month is considered a steal, especially if it's more than 1BR's

[DaveR]

Depends on the person

[Fletch]

Depends on the personWe have a winner!

[mhd]

this process is not one that can be made w/o considering other aspects

if one owns you have piece of mind and a tangible asset but the value of that asset appreciates slowly. at the end of a 30 year time period the money saved by renting over buying might be worth FAR more

a person needs to do a detailed long term financial analysis and ask themselves some tough questions

completely disagree (big surprise) just about everything you said is flawed, "slow appreciation"?
"money saved by renting over buying" - huh?

[DJ Loka]

to me renting=freedom. i'll pay for that flexibility.


and NOW your house loses a percentage point in value when other people on your block are foreclosed upon....so your investment is affected by OTHER PEOPLE defaulting...

i think a mortgage is a ball and chain. makes me break out in hives thinking about a 30 year debt,:scared:

[mhd]

Depends on the person

give me a scenario where renting is better than buying - over an extended period of time- 5 year plus

[Armento]

completely disagree (big surprise) just about everything you said is flawed, "slow appreciation"?
"money saved by renting over buying" - huh?
Renting can be much cheaper in monthly terms leaving money for higher yielding investments. I believe this is where WW is going.

[Mr.I]

The equity from home ownership is reason enough! $$$

[mhd]

Renting can be much cheaper in monthly terms leaving money for higher yielding investments. I believe this is where WW is going.

without that qualifier the statement is flawed, having said that, renting can also be more expensive, or the same, but in all scenarios, rent does not yield a return on investment

[Vinyl Deficit]

give me a scenario where renting is better than buying - over an extended period of time- 5 year plus
Renting is cool because you're not responsible for repairs and such. So assuming you have a good landlord/property management company, it's not such a bad idea. I own, but it'd be nice if when something went wrong I could just call and have it fixed.

Also depends on your age. If you buy a house when you're in your 40's, it's unlikely you'll get it payed off in a timely manner, IMO.

[mhd]

give me a scenario where renting is better than buying - over an extended period of time- 5 year plus

since i gotta run, i'll answer myself, renting may be better if somebody else is paying the bill, like your company, and your dollars are going for higher yielding investments, but, even then, you gotta compare what your roi is on a purchase versus corp housing.

[mhd]

Renting is cool because you're not responsible for repairs and such. So assuming you have a good landlord/property management company, it's not such a bad idea. I own, but it'd be nice if when something went wrong I could just call and have it fixed.

Also depends on your age. If you buy a house when you're in your 40's, it's unlikely you'll get it payed off in a timely manner, IMO.

sorry, but age has nothing to do with it, at least not in the way you present it

[DaveR]

give me a scenario where renting is better than buying - over an extended period of time- 5 year plus
why? :rofl5:

[Fletch]

A personal perspective (It's only my perspective, so.....)

I was in a rent stabilized studio in Park Slope Brooklyn, at $750/month. Landlord says that his tax benefits due to rent stabilization are running out, enabling him to go market rate. I could've fought his market increase, but after 15 years in that smallhole, it was time to pursue homeownership. I did, and so far so good.

I went back to the Slope recently. I found out that my old studio went from $750........to $1300/month! My mortgage + common charges are lower than that, with a much larger spot!

Like I said, it's my personal perspective, and not everyone will have the same scenario.

[travy]

prices will drop 20-40% over the next year so renting isn't such a bad idea in the short term. good deals will start popping up but loans will be harder to get. i'd spend the next 6-9 months saving for the down payment and getting your ducks in a row for the loan process...

[Chuck P]

IMHO there is no comparison to owning versus renting....homeownership for the most part is one of the most sound investments you could ever get into.....

Renters take there money and give it to someone else.....owners are creating a safe shelter for their money that they can/will receive at any time not to mention the equity that could be acquired from purchasing in a good area.......

The benefits of ownership far out way those of renting, it's not even close......

[mhd]

prices will drop 20-40% over the next year so renting isn't such a bad idea in the short term. good deals will start popping up but loans will be harder to get. i'd spend the next 6-9 months saving for the down payment and getting your ducks in a row for the loan process...

bad advice, nah, terrible advice

[travy]

bad advice, nah, terrible advice

really? not for ny'ers who are admittedly a little behind the nation...

[Phyllis Hyman Cherry]

Well for me i don't need a house per se.Im looking into Condo's and Coop's,Which is like home ownership in a way i guess.Ill have like $15,000 to work with hopefully that can be a decent downpayment.

[Vinyl Deficit]

sorry, but age has nothing to do with it, at least not in the way you present it
I figure; Why buy if you probably won't get it payed off. It's the same thing. Plus you have all the added responsability when owning. Owning does afford you some freedoms. Like remodeling and making a place look like you want. Just is the way I see it.

[Armento]

I figure; Why buy if you probably won't get it payed off. It's the same thing. Plus you have all the added responsability when owning. Owning does afford you some freedoms. Like remodeling and making a place look like you want. Just is the way I see it.
The correct way to do this is with serious financial analysis. If this expense is 1/3 or lower of your monthly salary then you should have money to overpay your mortgage, significantly speeding up the payoff.

[The Buddy Love Show]

completely disagree (big surprise) just about everything you said is flawed, "slow appreciation"?
"money saved by renting over buying" - huh?

money saved by renting over buying =
taxes
insurance
utilities
maintenance
pmi

if you dont spend on those costs (many of which are fixed) you can save that money in an interest bearing instrument

secondly, home values have not appreciated so quickly as to make them a better investment than stocks over the past 20 years

you dont have to agree or disagree with me..look it up, the facts are out there

[mhd]

really? not for ny'ers who are admittedly a little behind the nation...

by your own statement, deals will get better but money will get harder, if that is true you should buy now while deals are good and money is easy, esp in nyc, imo

[travy]

buying at the peak of a bubble is never a good idea:


http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/06/real_estate/home_prices.fortune/index.htm

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119638554201808816.html?mod=blog

http://www.nysun.com/article/67221

[Vinyl Deficit]

you should have money to overpay your mortgage, significantly speeding up the payoff.

That's a novel thought. The economy isn't set up for people like me to get ahead :rofl:

[travy]

by your own statement, deals will get better but money will get harder, if that is true you should buy now while deals are good and money is easy, esp in nyc, imo

the market is artificially high and jumping on that $450K studio in bed-stuy isn't too smart considering you can probably pick it up for half that in a year...

[Chuck P]

money saved by renting over buying =
taxes
insurance
utilities
maintenance
pmi

if you dont spend on those costs (many of which are fixed) you can save that money in an interest bearing instrument

secondly, home values have not appreciated so quickly as to make them a better investment than stocks over the past 20 years

you dont have to agree or disagree with me..look it up, the facts are out there


What about the long term stability of ownership and the financial offspring that could occur because of it.......

Even in the current market, home ownership is still a sound investment even though there are vices out there were you could receive a bigger return on your money, the risk may be greater as well.....

[DJ Loka]

A personal perspective (It's only my perspective, so.....)

I was in a rent stabilized studio in Park Slope Brooklyn, at $750/month. Landlord says that his tax benefits due to rent stabilization are running out, enabling him to go market rate. I could've fought his market increase, but after 15 years in that smallhole, it was time to pursue homeownership. I did, and so far so good.

I went back to the Slope recently. I found out that my old studio went from $750........to $1300/month! My mortgage + common charges are lower than that, with a much larger spot!

Like I said, it's my personal perspective, and not everyone will have the same scenario.

did you know that the benefits if rent stabilization run out ONLY if you make 200k/yr or more? if you make under that they have to keep you 4-6% rent stabilized increases even if you hit the $2000 mark in rent.

i'm in a scuffle now that necessitated a years worth of research investigation into all this stuff in nyc.

[The Buddy Love Show]

without that qualifier the statement is flawed, having said that, renting can also be more expensive, or the same, but in all scenarios, rent does not yield a return on investment

if you had read the link i posted this would have been obvious

especially when looking at the data points along the curves, which show the yearly savings along the curve

Colin Powell strikes again

[mhd]

money saved by renting over buying =
taxes
insurance
utilities
maintenance
pmi

if you dont spend on those costs (many of which are fixed) you can save that money in an interest bearing instrument

secondly, home values have not appreciated so quickly as to make them a better investment than stocks over the past 20 years

you dont have to agree or disagree with me..look it up, the facts are out there

great points, but, if a consumer is savvy enough to do such an analysis wouldn't they be savvy enough to find a homeowning scenario that works better than a renting one?

without researching it, i will also challenge your comment about stocks versus real estate, but you gotta factor out the tech boom, obviously you gonna come back with averages, and i'll counter with exceptions, but from 1987 - 2007 i would go with real estate, but energy and tech stocks will prolly skew average returns towards stocks

[ebot9000]

the market is artificially high and jumping on that $450K studio in bed-stuy isn't too smart considering you can probably pick it up for half that in a year...

It's funny, this conversation came up a couple months ago when shit was starting to hit the fan, with some folks on here in the nyc realtor biz. They were of the opinion that deflation wouldn't hit NYC, but I think it will at least to some extent, dunno about a 50% drop or anything, but things have seemed a little out of proportion over the past couple years. Are opinions changing?

Have prices dropped at all in nyc? Any new outlooks for new york? I really don't know, I'm curious if this shit has penetrated the nyc low supply market, or if it maintained its value.

[mhd]

if you had read the link i posted this would have been obvious

especially when looking at the data points along the curves, which show the yearly savings along the curve

Colin Powell strikes again

lol, man, i got my coat on

[mhd]

the market is artificially high and jumping on that $450K studio in bed-stuy isn't too smart considering you can probably pick it up for half that in a year...

you are predicting that nyc real estate will go down by 40-50%?

[The Buddy Love Show]

What about the long term stability of ownership and the financial offspring that could occur because of it.......

Even in the current market, home ownership is still a sound investment even though there are vices out there were you could receive a bigger return on your money, the risk may be greater as well.....

as DR wrote it depends on the person

I've owned (twice) and rented (as well as currently owning acreage). As I live alone and dont need the added expense of a home I can take all the money i'm saving on a home ( currently close to 2100/month) and place that in a high yeild financial instrument. This means I'm putting 24K yearly into investments with an average return of 8% compounded yearly. The housing market currently dropping at the rate of 10% in most places (except NYC).

Is home ownership great - yes. But not for the reasons cayts are trying to put forward. the fact of the matter is that the home in whic you live is a mediocre investment device even in the best of times. However, it is a source of stability for many

[Fletch]

did you know that the benefits if rent stabilization run out ONLY if you make 200k/yr or more? if you make under that they have to keep you 4-6% rent stabilized increases even if you hit the $2000 mark in rent.

i'm in a scuffle now that necessitated a years worth of research investigation into all this stuff in nyc.Correction....it was a 10-year tax abatement. I'm familiar with the rights of tenants in this city, especially what you posted. However....

1) my studio was getting cluttered
2) I'm a lifelong resident who wanted a piece of New York!
3) I thought home ownership, for me, was better than fighting for rent, even with what you posted above. In fact, the fact that my rent was so low for that neighborhood may have kept me from becoming a homeowner, because I was in such a comfort zone!

[mhd]

I figure; Why buy if you probably won't get it payed off. It's the same thing. Plus you have all the added responsability when owning. Owning does afford you some freedoms. Like remodeling and making a place look like you want. Just is the way I see it.

lol, paying off is the least of my concerns, we are talking about the relative benefits of renting vs buying your housing

[travy]

you are predicting that nyc real estate will go down by 40-50%?

at the high and low ends. solid neighborhoods will hold up better but even those will dip 10-20%. manhattan co-ops are down 7% already...

[The Buddy Love Show]

great points, but, if a consumer is savvy enough to do such an analysis wouldn't they be savvy enough to find a homeowning scenario that works better than a renting one?

without researching it, i will also challenge your comment about stocks versus real estate, but you gotta factor out the tech boom, obviously you gonna come back with averages, and i'll counter with exceptions, but from 1987 - 2007 i would go with real estate, but energy and tech stocks will prolly skew average returns towards stocks


most consumers are terrible at this analysis.

a home is a great method of FORCED savings for those who might not otherwise do so (imo). So it is a great way for black families to grow wealth

and yes, certain stocks categories will skew the average, but isnt that the beauty of dollar cost averaging? ( we're getting into straight financial analysis, at which i am terrible, so i welcome your thoughts)

[Vinyl Deficit]

lol, paying off is the least of my concerns, we are talking about the relative benefits of renting vs buying your housing
Fair enough...

[Chuck P]

as DR wrote it depends on the person

I've owned (twice) and rented (as well as currently owning acreage). As I live alone and dont need the added expense of a home I can take all the money i'm saving on a home ( currently close to 2100/month) and place that in a high yeild financial instrument. This means I'm putting 24K yearly into investments with an average return of 8% compounded yearly. The housing market currently dropping at the rate of 10% in most places (except NYC).

Is home ownership great - yes. But not for the reasons cayts are trying to put forward. the fact of the matter is that the home in whic you live is a mediocre investment device even in the best of times. However, it is a source of stability for many

I believe that's the way I'm looking at it from a stability standpoint.....I don't think it can be argued that if you play the stock game correctly, you could/would have a bigger rate of return on your investment than home ownership........

I also believe that owning should be a part of an individuals financial portfolio, even if it's for shelter purposes.....

[mhd]

as DR wrote it depends on the person

I've owned (twice) and rented (as well as currently owning acreage). As I live alone and dont need the added expense of a home I can take all the money i'm saving on a home ( currently close to 2100/month) and place that in a high yeild financial instrument. This means I'm putting 24K yearly into investments with an average return of 8% compounded yearly. The housing market currently dropping at the rate of 10% in most places (except NYC).

Is home ownership great - yes. But not for the reasons cayts are trying to put forward. the fact of the matter is that the home in whic you live is a mediocre investment device even in the best of times. However, it is a source of stability for many

good luck to you if you think that is a sound investment strategy, just saying, sure there is expense, but there is also appreciation, you giving a snapshot, when in reality, we have both seen huge returns on stocks and huge appreciation in real estate, all in all, a savvy investor (in stocks) is also, or should, find real estate deals that beat the averages

[Fletch]

at the high and low ends. solid neighborhoods will hold up better but even those will dip 10-20%. manhattan co-ops are down 7% already...I'm no expert, but I vehemently disagree with 10-20 and 40-50%! Not in this city!

Oh, buy the way, did you reade that Times article Sunday on the stalemate between buyers and sellers? It shoots down that '7% Manhattan coop drop' argument!

[Fletch]

Is renting forever OK?

I'm realizing when it comes to the City of New York, the Euros are giving and affirmative and obvious answer to the above question!

[mhd]

Fair enough...

so, without paying it off, you could leverage your crib, at say 7% and get that 8% markb is talking about, or any number of scenarios that you cannot do with renting

[DJ Loka]

Correction....it was a 10-year tax abatement. I'm familiar with the rights of tenants in this city, especially what you posted. However....

1) my studio was getting cluttered
2) I'm a lifelong resident who wanted a piece of New York!
3) I thought home ownership, for me, was better than fighting for rent, even with what you posted above. In fact, the fact that my rent was so low for that neighborhood may have kept me from becoming a homeowner, because I was in such a comfort zone!


oh no i hear you! lolol, and i've found that many many people don't realize that 200k cutoff part and are getting jacked by their landlords.

[mhd]

most consumers are terrible at this analysis.

a home is a great method of FORCED savings for those who might not otherwise do so (imo). So it is a great way for black families to grow wealth

and yes, certain stocks categories will skew the average, but isnt that the beauty of dollar cost averaging? ( we're getting into straight financial analysis, at which i am terrible, so i welcome your thoughts)

exactly my point, if you can do one (stocks) you can do the other (real estate) or by necessity you will encounter others that can do both, one cat did them both on a major level, chris larsen was a young cat made huge loot during the tech boom, his company plus friends and family, his product: eloan

[travy]

I'm no expert, but I vehemently disagree with 10-20 and 40-50%! Not in this city!

Oh, buy the way, did you reade that Times article Sunday on the stalemate between buyers and sellers? It shoots down that '7% Manhattan coop drop' argument!

the market is determined by those who have to sell and have to buy at any given moment so mileage may vary...

but, traditionally i'd agree with you. but we're coming out of a classic bubble and leading up to it you got lots of people jumping in the market under the impression that it will never come down which inflates things. as soon as reality hits the short-timers will jump ship and we'll get a pretty healthy correction--not to mention all those new condos that will start flooding the market this year.

long term, nyc real estate is a great place to park your money (and your ass) but i really think the next 12 months will be atypical...

[The Buddy Love Show]

Forbes did an analysis which showed that Stocks were a FAR SUPERIOR investment than RE since 1980

here is link...scroll down to major mkt comparisons and check the pop ups:

http://www.forbes.com/2005/05/27/cx_sc_0527home.html

[travy]

check it: (http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/12/desperation_lea.php)

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/mustsell1207.jpg

the bubble poppeth!

[DaveR]

check it: (http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2007/12/desperation_lea.php)

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/mustsell1207.jpg

the bubble poppeth!
Don't you know posting stuff like this, amongst the Carlton Sheets Informercialists will keep this thread going for months :rofl5:

[travy]

Don't you know posting stuff like this, amongst the Carlton Sheets Informercialists will keep this thread going for months :rofl5:

for a real laugh, check out these guys... (http://curbed.com/archives/2007/12/03/curbed_roundtable_december_state_o_the_market_repo rt.php):thumbsup:

[ProvocativeElement]

to me renting=freedom. i'll pay for that flexibility.


and NOW your house loses a percentage point in value when other people on your block are foreclosed upon....so your investment is affected by OTHER PEOPLE defaulting...

i think a mortgage is a ball and chain. makes me break out in hives thinking about a 30 year debt,:scared:

in addition, what you pay back in a mortage BY AND FARRRRR excedes what you borrow - so much so, it's really obcene (and technically against the Law of God - I think it's called Usury)

that being said, I'm still looking to buy in the next few years . . .

[DJ Loka]

in addition, what you pay back in a mortage BY AND FARRRRR excedes what you borrow - so much so, it's really obcene (and technically against the Law of God - I think it's called Usury)

that being said, I'm still looking to buy in the next few years . . .


there's alot to be said for not having anything to 'take'... :wink: LOLOLOL.

when i owned my first business, i realized verrry quickly how people come for you with bogus lawsuits etc etc, with no reason... on the assumption that there may be something they can get you to pay yourself out of....

and when i do buy land, it's gonna be in another country.

[E-Phi]

in addition, what you pay back in a mortage BY AND FARRRRR excedes what you borrow - so much so, it's really obcene (and technically against the Law of God - I think it's called Usury)

that being said, I'm still looking to buy in the next few years . . .

Amortization killed the loan sharks :rofl5:

[mhd]

Forbes did an analysis which showed that Stocks were a FAR SUPERIOR investment than RE since 1980

here is link...scroll down to major mkt comparisons and check the pop ups:

http://www.forbes.com/2005/05/27/cx_sc_0527home.html

well, at least the authors were honest enough to admit this was flawed, excluding condos, co-ops and mortgages over $330k makes this analysis pretty useless, you knock out almost all of nyc, vegas, miami, dc, san francisco...

[The Buddy Love Show]

well, at least the authors were honest enough to admit this was flawed, excluding condos, co-ops and mortgages over $330k makes this analysis pretty useless, you knock out almost all of nyc, vegas, miami, dc, san francisco...

actually, the analysis and the assumed equivalency between stocks/bonds etc and home mortgages is the erroneous assumption on both sides of the argument

Stocks bonds etc are SPECULATIVE investments, the home one lives in is NOT

Treating the latter as the first is what has gotten us in this problem to begin with.

Investment devices SHOULD be reflective of risk (and consequently, reward) ones home should not.

By definition, speculative investments SHOULD do better

this is just my own lil analysis on markets, homebuying and human nature

*edit*..your thoughts regarding Forbes articles analysis led me to question the basic premises behind home ownership vs stock/bond ownership - thanks

[gman]

^

[JMNYC]

since i gotta run, i'll answer myself, renting may be better if somebody else is paying the bill, like your company, and your dollars are going for higher yielding investments, but, even then, you gotta compare what your roi is on a purchase versus corp housing.

I had several financial advisors tell me to stay put renting because the location I'm in (Manhattan) has gotten so expensive and I'm in a stabilized apartment. Therefore they instructed me that remaining a renter and investing the difference (even in income property) would be a smart move, given that I want to remain in close proximity to my current location.

As it stands, I pay 1/3 the market value of my apartment but my income is on par with the current market, hence, my expenses are low and my investments (and lifestyle) can be substantially higher. I can also take a financial hit (lose a job, etc.) and still know that I can afford to stay where I am.

[ClubMantra]

Its hard to get a down payment when you have to cough up $950 a month.I know a girl who just bought a house for $599 k.She did'nt put any money down and the mortgage is $4000 a month.She had a section 8 tenant but the section 8, didnt renew and was dropped.Long story short the lady only pays $300 bucks a month so now she has to pay the rest.She only makes$1000 a week so she is in a bind.

That must have been some good a** Section 8. In PA, she would have never qualified. She may have to sell or get a tenant(s) who will pay $3500/month or sell and get something that she can manage the payments in a crisis. Real estate can be good, but so can investing. The trick is save a minimum of $25-50/week or more=$1,300 or $2,600/year. That same money can be used weekly to by stock, which is totally liquid. When you need money, just call the company (avoid buying from investment companies) and sell off so many shares and they send you a check within 2 days. If you run a business from out of your apt, you can write a portion of the space off on your taxes.

[maryannsms]

By renting property from another person you are helping them invest in property and enrich themselves instead of yourself. Also you put yourself in a position where you are totally dependent on another person for a home. There are times when apartment complexes are sold to new companies that have different rental procedures and requirements. Quite a few people who have less than perfect credit or rental histories find themselves unable to renew their leases when new companies take over.

[the crackhouse]

give me a scenario where renting is better than buying - over an extended period of time- 5 year plus

Never put my eyes on this section of the forums.

We (my wife and I) tried to buy a house in Brussels, we have 2 kids and come from the countryside.

We were both working at that time and wished at least 3 bedrooms and a garden. We couldn't buy anything, even in the far suburbs.

So we decided to buy 2 small buildings in the countryside to rent them and rent our family house with the money we get each month.

Today, I'm quite happy we didn't buy our family house, for these main reasons:
- We may move to differents places in our lifetime as we already did (India may be our next move in 2 years),

- Buildings are an investment which can provide you a safety in case of long term unemployment (I can elaborate on this one if you don' see why),

- When I see the money spent just to keep the 2 buildings in conformity and safety, it's expensive and safety rules and laws are changing very often,

- The income, if you think before you buy the buildings, can be fractionned so if one of your loaners is not paying, you don't get in deep trouble,

- After 5-8 years of mortgage, you already got your money back if you're selling one of the buildings, even if the housing economy is low, when your family home will only cost you,

- If loaners are not paying their rent, you can get rid of them easily and try a new person who can be a better one and you can rent him/her at a higher price, thanks to the housing rents evolution,

- After a period of 15-30 years, your buildings become a full income, which comes handy when your kids are facing unemployment and/or raise kids,

- You can bet on transforming your buildings to get higher incomes, yet your family home transformations would be only driven by your wishes for new aesthetics and/or facilities/commodities,

- Your kids will be able, when you're dead or mad old, to benefit from incomes, instead of fighting mentally or as enemys to keep or sell the family house.

The list can go on, but as I don't think I'm going to stay and work in Europe in the next 40 years, and as I hope my kids will do the move too if they can understand where the good life (and money) is.

Idance

[the crackhouse]

I will add that when you're investing into your own house, you're quite stuck there, you're investing money on a place and only one, for your health and happy living.

What if the neighborhood becomes a place you don't like? If the town decides that an airport is gonna be build here and they will evacuate you and put your walls down?

What if your kids relocate in another part of the world and you can't see them often cause your mortgage is too heavy to support more than 2 plane flights per year?

What if you have a great job opportunity, say at 100 miles from your home, will you do the journey each day?

What if you're divorcing?

How would you feel if you had to work just to pay for your mortgage till you get really old, the big family house is empty and you just need to live on the first floor?

Sometimes buying a family home is and investment that goes well with your job income, sometimes it just doesn't work. Living the way everyone is living, cause it looks cool or normal isn't the cleer way.

Idance

[the crackhouse]

And just to finish with my point of view, what about my concrete example:

- Paid 235 000 Euros for 2 buildings, would have got a 2 bedrooms house in Brussels for this and the same mortgage.

Paying a 1600 Mortage for those buildings.

Buildings net income (mortgage and taxes paid):
- Good months = 1600 Euros
- Bad months = 1000 Euros

My home renting = 1500 Euros

So I have to get 600 Euros at worse to pay my rent and live.
I would have paid as much to fix things in my house.

Let's imagine I loose my job, my home rent is still paid or the 2/3 of it.

Now I bought my family house, I loose my job. I can't pay the motgage, I loose my house. I need to relocate and rent, where will I live with my 3 fellows without a job and with debts over a "broken mortgage contract"?

I feel more secure in my actual position, and I may even sell one of my buildings if my life is getting hard.
If my job income is getting higher, I may relocate in an even better house.

Who's happy to sell his house for any reason? And what if you bought a family house and finally it's not working..?

End of my Renting Vs Buying argument.

Idance

[DeepHouseLounge]

Hello Phyllis.

I think the question " is renting forever ok?" should be asked to yourself after a few other questions to really determain what senario would work best for you. There are so many variable and factors and questions that can lead you in either direction.

My advice is if you plan on purchasing you should look into a duplex unit.

[jorgea]

It's better to own a home or condo and then rent it. I hope to find other interesting posts here at http://www.deephousepage.com