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The Buddy Love Show
07-18-2007, 02:37 PM
An interesting article from Suze Orman



Suze Orman Money Matters

Fund Your Retirement with a One-Two Punch

A few weeks ago, I heard a financial adviser on TV say that one of the biggest mistakes you can make is suspending your 401(k) contributions after you qualify for the company match.

I think that's really bad advice, and I want to make sure you understand why.

Max Out, and Then What?

In 2007, you can invest up to $15,500 in a 401(k) plan; if you're 50 or older, the max is $20,500. In addition to your contributions, most plans also offer an employer matching contribution tied to your salary. One typical formula is for an employer to match 50 percent of your contributions up to a max of 6 percent of your salary.

It's an absolute no-brainer that everyone should contribute enough to their 401(k) to get the maximum employer match. But then a question arises: Does it make sense to keep contributing to the 401(k) after you've maxed out on your employer's contribution?

My answer depends on your personal financial situation. Here's my strategy.

Making More Out of Less

If your FICO credit score is below 620, your priority after getting the full company 401(k) match is to pay down your debt so you can boost your credit score. That low score costs you way too much in higher interest rates on credit cards and car and home loans, as well as on your car insurance premium. A low score could also mean that a landlord won't rent to you, and can even keep you from landing a job you want.

If you limit your 401(k) contributions to just enough to get the maximum company match, you'll have more money in your paycheck even after taxes. You can use that to increase your credit card payments.

But if you have a strong FICO score, aren't paying high interest on any credit card debt, and already have an emergency cash fund in place, your next step after getting the maximum company match on your 401(k) should be to fund a Roth IRA.

Why a Roth?

This year, individuals with modified adjusted gross incomes below $99,000, and married couples filing a joint return with income below $156,000, can invest the full $4,000 in a Roth. Contributions are reduced for individuals with incomes between $99,000 and $114,000, as well as married couples with incomes between $156,000 and $166,000. (You can contribute $5,000 if you're at least 50 years old.)

You want to switch over and fully fund a Roth after achieving your employer match on a 401(k) because of your future tax bill. If you follow the standard rules, withdrawals from your Roth will be 100 percent tax free in retirement. Withdrawals from your 401(k) will be taxed at your ordinary income tax rate. Currently, that can be as high as 35 percent, not including state tax.

Unless you're currently in a very high tax bracket and are sure you'll be in a very low one in retirement, odds are that you'll do better with the Roth because of the tax treatment.

Stashing Away for Your Mortgage

I could make your eyeballs spin with the math involved, but I'll provide a scenario I think many of you can relate to instead.

The primary reason you save for retirement, obviously, is so you can cover your living costs when you're no longer working. One of the biggest retirement expenses is a mortgage, and with so many people trading up or refinancing later in life, it's going to be increasingly common for retirees to still be paying off a house into their 70s and beyond.

For example, let's say at age 50 you bought or refinanced a home with a $300,000, 30-year fixed rate mortgage at 6.5 percent. That works out to monthly payments of $1,896, or $22,752 a year. At age 65 you decide -- or are forced -- to retire, so there's no more income. You want to stay in the house you love, but are worried about the 15 years of payments left on the mortgage.

By my calculations, you would need a 401(k) stash in the vicinity of $500,000 to be able to cover the house payments without eating into your principal. I'm assuming that this $500,000 earns a conservative 5 percent a year, which comes to $25,000 a year. That $25,000 will be enough to cover the mortgage assuming your income tax rate in retirement is just 15 percent; if you're in the 25 percent bracket, you'll be a little bit short after netting out the tax owed on your withdrawals.

If you anticipate that your tax rate will be higher than 25 percent, you would obviously need to save more to cover your mortgage once you retire. For example, if you expect to be in the current top income tax bracket of 35 percent, you'd need about $700,000 in your 401(k) to generate enough income to cover your mortgage.

Who Needs a Tax Break?

I have a better idea. After 15 years, your mortgage balance will be about $217,000. To pay it off in full you would need a 401(k) balance of about $335,000 to net the $217,000 after taxes. (Withdraw $335,000 in one year and chances are you'll be stuck in the 35 percent tax bracket.)

If you had at least $217,000 in a Roth IRA instead, you would be in great shape, because that $217,000 could be withdrawn tax-free. If you ask me, saving $217,000 is a lot easier than saving $500,000, or even $335,000.

Sure, people will argue that if you opt for a Roth rather than max out on your 401(k), you lose out on the fact that 401(k) contributions reduce your taxable income and Roth contributions come out of after-tax income (i.e., they provide no tax break). But this presumes that you'll diligently invest the extra tax savings from a 401(k). If you're that disciplined then you deserve the retirement-savings prize, but my experience is that most people end up spending their tax savings rather than investing them.

A Retirement Funding Knockout

I even advise those of you who have the option of participating in a Roth 401(k) at work to invest to the point of a company match first, then concentrate on funding a Roth IRA. Even though the Roth 401(k) is a great choice -- and more and more employers will be offering it in the coming years -- I still like the Roth IRA because of the extra flexibility it gives you.

With a Roth IRA, you can always withdraw your contributions at any time without any taxes or penalties; that's not the case with your 401(k). I'm not suggesting you ever raid your retirement savings, but it's an extra security blanket to know that your Roth IRA contributions can double as an emergency cash fund.

A Roth is a better estate planning tool, too. The IRS requires that everyone begin taking required minimum distributions from their 401(k) accounts (as well as traditional IRAs) no later than the year you turn 70-1/2. Even if you don't need the income, the IRS does -- the purpose of this rule is to make sure the government finally gets to collect some income tax from your account. But there's no required withdrawal with a Roth IRA: You can leave 100 percent of it invested to pass along to your beneficiaries.

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/moneymatters/39146

C-King
07-18-2007, 03:46 PM
Great post!

sammyrock
07-18-2007, 03:48 PM
Excellent post.I wonder how many of us actually think about our future.

Jack Black LaLanne
07-18-2007, 04:03 PM
Good stuff. Thanks

gman
07-18-2007, 04:19 PM
Suze Orman..thats my girl. Lots of great free financial advice. Listening to her on CNBC convinced me to pay off my mortgage early.

Where I work we have the 403(b) which is the same as the 401K except it is for non-profits,state and local goverments and schools. We also have the Deferrered Compensation Program which is also Tax deferered. We are allowed to put money in both the 403(b) and the Deferrered Compensation Program for a total of $31,000 /yr :grinyes:

BrazenMuse
07-18-2007, 05:05 PM
Now check this: I gotta get a 403(b) in Sept bc of my new gig. Turns out, there's this big scam involving the NEA (of which my new union NJEA is an affiliate) and that Nationwide and one other company have been BILKING teachers for YEARS and YEARS ...stealin' their retirement dough through fees. Scandal!!! I'm sooooo glad I'm still deciding who to do my investing with. Any recommendations?

Hmmm...ok, how do i just put in a URL without rampaging all over the screen? Hmmm...got it

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/17/business/17suit.html?ex=1185336000&en=da31c18ea13cc51a&ei=5070&emc=eta1

gman
07-18-2007, 08:59 PM
IMO anyone who invests their retirement money with an insurance company is getting ripped\scammed. Take a look at companies like Vanguard, Troweprice and Fidelity for your 403(b) if your job offers them.

Chris Chase
07-18-2007, 11:13 PM
This is really good information. Thanks for posting it.

Kurtis10X
07-18-2007, 11:41 PM
Good info...

Terry James
08-23-2007, 01:06 PM
Is pre-tax/post-tax the only difference between a Roth and 401K? The actual funds are or can be the same(i.e., PIMCO, Small Cap, etc)?

The Buddy Love Show
08-24-2007, 09:24 AM
Is pre-tax/post-tax the only difference between a Roth and 401K? The actual funds are or can be the same(i.e., PIMCO, Small Cap, etc)?

Research time...thats a good question

Terry James
09-06-2007, 03:22 PM
Roth Info

Why should I consider a Roth IRA?


Roth IRAs offer distinctive advantages over Traditional IRAs. With a Traditional IRA, distributions after age 59½ are generally taxed as ordinary income, while qualified distributions from a Roth IRA are free from federal income taxes. Since qualified distributions can be taken at any time without taxes or penalties, Roth IRAs may give you more flexible access to your savings than Traditional IRAs. (Converted assets may be withdrawn without taxes and penalties under certain circumstances.) Unlike Traditional IRAs, with a Roth IRA, there's no age limit on contributions and minimum distributions are not required, so you can keep your money in your account as long as you live. Roth IRA contributions, however, are made on an after-tax basis.

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Who can contribute to a Roth IRA?


You can contribute to a Roth IRA at any age:

If you have taxable compensation
And your filing status is . . . AND your modified AGI
(adjusted gross income) is less than . . .
Married filing jointly $166,000
Married filing separately—and you lived with
your spouse during the year $ 10,000
Single, head of household, or married filing separately and you did not live with your
spouse at any time during the year $114,000



You can contribute to a Roth IRA for your spouse, provided you meet the following conditions:
You are married, filing jointly and have a modified AGI (adjusted gross income) of less than $166,000
Your spouse earns less than you
The contribution for your spouse is the lesser of:
$4,000 (in 2007) or the appropriate reduced amount if your modified AGI is within an applicable phase-out range (view contribution limit schedule); or
The total compensation you and your spouse include in gross income, less any contributions you make to Traditional or Roth IRAs on your own behalf.
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How much can I contribute?


For 2007, if you contribute only to a Roth IRA, the maximum contribution is $4,000 or your taxable compensation, whichever is less. If your modified AGI (adjusted gross income) is above a certain amount, your contribution limit may be reduced. Your maximum contribution may be further reduced by any contributions to Traditional IRAs on your behalf (other than employer contributions under a SEP or SIMPLE IRA).

Contribution Limit Schedule:
The Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA), provides for increases in contribution limits over the next several years. The limits for Traditional and Roth IRAs are:

Year Amount
2002-2004 $3,000
2005-2007 $4,000
2008 and beyond $5,000, plus potential cost of living adjustment (COLA) increases in $500 increments beginning in 2009



Additionally, EGTRRA gives people age 50 and older an opportunity to contribute more than the basic annual IRA contribution limit:

Year Amount
2002-2005 $500
2006 and beyond $1,000



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Will my contributions be tax deductible?


No. Roth IRA contributions are not deductible. Since regular contributions are made after taxes, you can access them anytime without taxes or penalties.

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When are contribution limits reduced?


Your contribution limit is reduced:

If your filing status is . . . AND your modified AGI is between . . .
Married filing jointly $156,000 and $166,000
Married filing separately—and you lived with
your spouse during the year $0 and $10,000
Single, head of household, or married filing separately and you did not live with your
spouse at any time during the year $99,000 and $114,000



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Which distributions from a Roth IRA are not taxable?


Certain distributions from your Roth IRA are not included in your gross income and are not subject to federal income tax. These include:
Return of regular contributions that exceed the contribution limit and are returned, along with any earnings on the contributions (which are taxable), before your tax return due date
Qualified distributions (as defined in this section), that have remained in the Roth IRA for five years or more
Distributions from your Roth IRA that you roll over tax free into another Roth IRA
Generally speaking, a qualified distribution is any distribution from your Roth IRA (or amounts converted from a Traditional IRA which were subject to tax), which have been in the account for at least five years AND are made:
on or after the date you reach age 59½,
because you are disabled,
to a beneficiary or to your estate after your death, or
to buy, build, or rebuild a first home (up to a $10,000 lifetime limit).
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Which distributions are subject to tax?


A distribution is not a qualified distribution if it is made within five years of a contribution—or if it is made after the five-year period, but fails to satisfy any of the four conditions that would make it a qualified distribution.

If you make a withdrawal from your Roth IRA that is not a qualified distribution, part or all of the withdrawal may be taxable. In some cases, state and local taxes may apply to distributions that are free from federal income taxes.

A special circumstance to note: Contributions withdrawn before your tax filing date are treated separately by the IRS. If you made excess contributions to your Roth IRA, you may withdraw them without federal income tax by the due date of that year's return (including extensions). However, this is allowed only if you also withdraw any interest or other income earned on the contributions. Neither the contributions nor the earnings, if any, are qualified distributions, and any earnings must be included in income for the year the contribution was made.

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When can I take money out of a Roth IRA without penalties?


Generally speaking, you may withdraw regular contributions anytime without penalties. In addition, qualified distributions of earnings are free from federal income tax and no penalties apply.

If you contribute more to your Roth IRA than is allowed, a 6% excise tax may apply to the excess contribution. If you withdraw the excess amount and any related earnings before the due date of your federal income tax return (with extensions), however, the amount will be treated as if it was never contributed.

If you convert a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA, you may not withdraw assets from the account within five years of conversion without the earnings being subject to federal income tax. In addition, you may incur a 10% penalty for early withdrawal.

If you receive a distribution that is not a qualified distribution, you may have to pay a 10% early withdrawal penalty, subject to certain exceptions. These exceptions include: withdrawals after attaining age 59½, withdrawals related to disability, certain medical expenses or medical insurance costs, qualified higher-education expenses, first home purchases, and distributions that are part of a series of substantially equal periodic payments made for your life or life expectancy (or the joint lives or joint life expectancies of you and your designated beneficiary).

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How can I tell which types of contributions/earnings I'm withdrawing?


If you make a withdrawal from your Roth IRA that is not a qualified distribution, part of the withdrawal may be taxable. To help you determine the correct tax, there is a set order in which contributions and earnings are considered to be withdrawn from your Roth IRA:
Regular contributions
Amounts converted from a Traditional IRA, which were subject to tax, on a first-in, first-out basis
Amounts converted that were not subject to tax (nondeductible Traditional IRA contributions)
Earnings on contributions
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Can I move money into a Roth IRA?


Yes, you can do so in four different ways:
Conversions from either a Traditional, SEP, or SIMPLE IRA
Recharacterizations of contributions made to one IRA as having been made directly into a different IRA
Rollovers of amounts distributed from one Roth IRA and reinvested in another within 60 days
Trustee-to-trustee transfers from one Roth IRA to another
Conversions to a Roth IRA may be desirable for investors who prefer qualified distributions that are free from federal income tax. The tax consequences of converting to a Roth IRA may be substantial, and conversion rules (including reconversion provisions) are complex. A failed conversion (due to higher-than-anticipated income or an unexpected change in filing status) may have adverse consequences, including a 6% excise tax on any excess contribution not withdrawn from the Roth IRA, the need to include Traditional IRA distributions in gross income, and a 10% penalty on any early withdrawals. These penalties may be avoided if you are able to recharacterize your contributions. Conversions are not permitted if your AGI exceeds $100,000 or if you are married filing separate returns. Beginning in 2005, required minimum distributions from Traditional IRAs no longer count toward the $100,000 AGI limit. Therefore, many people over age 70 1/2 who were previously ineligible to convert to a Roth IRA may now have an opportunity to do so.

Recharacterizations may allow you to treat contributions to one type of IRA as a contribution to a Roth IRA, or vice versa. Even if the contribution to the first IRA would have been deductible, if it is recharacterized as a Roth IRA contribution, no deduction will be allowed.

Rollovers from a Roth IRA allow you to make tax-free withdrawals of part or all of the assets from one Roth IRA if you contribute them to another Roth IRA within 60 days. Most of the Roth-to-Roth IRA rollover rules are similar to those for Traditional IRAs.

Trustee-to-trustee transfers allow money to move directly from one Roth IRA to another, even at a different financial institution. In this type of transfer, you do not actually receive the distribution.

For more information about Roth IRA provisions, distributions, and taxes, please consult with your tax advisor.

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Neither New York Life Investment Management LLC nor its representatives provide legal, tax, or accounting advice—please contact your own advisors.

Terry James
09-06-2007, 03:50 PM
Whats the rate of return on a roth?

Terry James
09-06-2007, 04:22 PM
I just switched to;

Small Cap Value Fund (LRSCX) (Lord Abbett Small-Cap Value Fund (Class A Shares))
2nd Qtr YTD 1-Yr 3-Yr 5-Yr 10-Yr Lifetime
Lord Abbett Small Cap Value A 8.17% 10.68% 16.59% 18.83% 18.53% 14.34% 17.03%

And

EuroPacific Growth Fund (REREX) (American Funds - EuroPacific Growth Fund (Class R4))
2nd Qtr YTD 1-Yr 3-Yr 5-Yr 10-Yr Lifetime
Am. Funds EuroPacific Gr R4 8.41% 11.57% 27.31% 23.39% 18.36% N/A 17.49%

managing my own funds...these seemed to offer the highest ROI over YTD, 1, 5 and 10 years. Still have to keep my eye on 'em though...i'm all about aggression now....High Risk Yippieeeeeee

gman
09-07-2007, 12:29 PM
I just switched to;

Small Cap Value Fund (LRSCX) (Lord Abbett Small-Cap Value Fund (Class A Shares))
2nd Qtr YTD 1-Yr 3-Yr 5-Yr 10-Yr Lifetime
Lord Abbett Small Cap Value A 8.17% 10.68% 16.59% 18.83% 18.53% 14.34% 17.03%

And

EuroPacific Growth Fund (REREX) (American Funds - EuroPacific Growth Fund (Class R4))
2nd Qtr YTD 1-Yr 3-Yr 5-Yr 10-Yr Lifetime
Am. Funds EuroPacific Gr R4 8.41% 11.57% 27.31% 23.39% 18.36% N/A 17.49%

managing my own funds...these seemed to offer the highest ROI over YTD, 1, 5 and 10 years. Still have to keep my eye on 'em though...i'm all about aggression now....High Risk Yippieeeeeee


Looking pretty good on those funds. What are the expense ratios ?

-G

gman
09-07-2007, 12:30 PM
Whats the rate of return on a roth?


That depends on the funds that you pick just like in your 401K.

Terry James
09-07-2007, 01:17 PM
Is pre-tax/post-tax the only difference between a Roth and 401K? The actual funds are or can be the same(i.e., PIMCO, Small Cap, etc)?


Whats the rate of return on a roth?


That depends on the funds that you pick just like in your 401K.

ok..you've answered my first question

Terry James
09-07-2007, 01:25 PM
Looking pretty good on those funds. What are the expense ratios ?

-G



Small Cap Value Fund (LRSCX) (Lord Abbett Small-Cap Value Fund (Class A Shares))
ER= 1.23%

And

EuroPacific Growth Fund (REREX) (American Funds - EuroPacific Growth Fund (Class R4))
ER= .87%

Think it's too high?

Chuck P
11-15-2007, 03:24 AM
Suze Orman..thats my girl. Lots of great free financial advice. Listening to her on CNBC convinced me to pay off my mortgage early.

Where I work we have the 403(b) which is the same as the 401K except it is for non-profits,state and local goverments and schools. We also have the Deferrered Compensation Program which is also Tax deferered. We are allowed to put money in both the 403(b) and the Deferrered Compensation Program for a total of $31,000 /yr :grinyes:

G, I put cash into the 403(b) and the deferred compensations as well, I think I'm limited to 15% of my yearly gross as a cap, but I'm getting ready to get into the ROTH IRA's.......

maryannsms
07-24-2009, 03:49 AM
It makes sense that as we strive for a better lifestyle and more time to ourselves that we create an income stream from the comfort of our homes working the hours which suit us depending on how much money we wish to make.

Most of us want to retire with enough financial stability to have and do whatever we want, holidays, travel, luxury items, nice car etc.

jorgea
12-14-2011, 08:30 PM
This is an excellent article on planning for retirement. I highly recommend everyone to read it.